improving ride of car

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musthavemuzk
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improving ride of car

Postby musthavemuzk » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:37 am

just one of them there debateable threads.

i like the way my car handles, but i know it can be better.

except for my 73 camaro this one corners rather well. then agin it had some serious tread width to it. i forget the specific size tire, but they were 14" 60 series eagle st's on all four corners
i am in the plan stages for things to do to my new car.
i want new wheels and tires. want to step to 16's not sure of brands though. i currently roll on steel 14's with nasty plastic covers.
195/75/14 not sure of the brand of tire.
in the meantime i have played with tire pressure.
on the trunk lid and in the manual it says 30psi
on the sidewall it says max of 35psi. i have ran them at 35psi cold and 32 psi cold. i like the handling of the 35 much better. have not noticed much ride difference between the two though.

i know that less sidewall height means less sidewall flex which means better handling.

what other things can be done to improve handling.
and leaving out the car audio stuff is out of the question. gonna try to keep it over the rear tires and reduce weight if possible. but it definitely goes in.

thanx

Monty
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nismo
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Postby nismo » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:40 am

i dont suggest using the number on the tires...that is the maximum pressure you can put in without them blowing up (unless youre lucky).

as for size...
195/75-14 is equivalent to 205/65-15's or 215/55-16 without drastically changing the diameter. if you wanna find wheels specific to your car, try http://www.tirerack.com for ideas. you can search for several sizes of wheels, and a huge selection of tires.

eric
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Sound_Miata
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Postby Sound_Miata » Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:12 am

less sidewall flex does not equal better handling all the time! It does however make for a stiffer ride. The reason you perceived better handling at higher pressure is you were putting less contact patch on the ground so there was less scrub from the tires that could drag, but you will also run into problems with loss of grip real fast in higher end handling issues.

To further improve handling, you can change your shocks to a stronger/stiffer or even adjustable set, as well as changing springs to a stiffer spring. One could also change the front/rear swaybar (or add them) to the car to stiffen up corner roll, as well as a front shock tower bar if there is room (or one avail for your car).

I can discuss the pros/cons of shocks/springs/sways later if you tell me how much of a budget you are looking at.

-Greer
*Winner of the Beastly 1000th AND 2000th Post*
slappin momma llama on the backside-Joshie-Poo :-D

Vendors: We will allow you to break the laws of physics and the second law of thermodynamics so long as you provide us with a working model.
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nismo
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Postby nismo » Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:29 pm

Originally posted by Sound_Miata
less sidewall flex does not equal better handling all the time! It does however make for a stiffer ride. The reason you perceived better handling at higher pressure is you were putting less contact patch on the ground so there was less scrub from the tires that could drag, but you will also run into problems with loss of grip real fast in higher end handling issues.

To further improve handling, you can change your shocks to a stronger/stiffer or even adjustable set, as well as changing springs to a stiffer spring. One could also change the front/rear swaybar (or add them) to the car to stiffen up corner roll, as well as a front shock tower bar if there is room (or one avail for your car).

I can discuss the pros/cons of shocks/springs/sways later if you tell me how much of a budget you are looking at.

-Greer


i should have mentioned the suspension thing, but since monty was talking about tires, i just kept on with that topic :)

eric
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musthavemuzk
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Postby musthavemuzk » Mon Jun 17, 2002 7:05 pm

OK then
i was talkin tires cuz that was basically the only thing i had in my possesion and it did not require any money to see results and play with.
definitely not limited to just tires. as i want both tires and improved overall suspension performance. which would be the best first thing to do? is this like building a car audio system? where the end results can be acheived in many dif routes? just looking for logical routes so to speak. like doing this before this is not the wisest route, but doing this then this is a pretty sure bet.

i have looked at tirerack.com i like that you can see the wheels on your ride. well for me they have a 4 dr and not the 2dr. not a big thing, but still slightly different.

below are links to the 2 factory wheels i am lookin at
this one is a 15x7
http://www.soundillusions.net/sites/musthavemuzk/90cutlasssupreme/91oldscutlassintl.jpg

this one is a 16x7
http://www.soundillusions.net/sites/musthavemuzk/90cutlasssupreme/94cutlasssupremes.jpg

i have read a litle bit on the front shock tower brace you mention. some are able to find either a factory or aftermarket that bolts right up with a couple holes drilled if needed. then there are those who are not so fortunate and custom fab and fit one.
off the top of my head i do not recall if mine is a problem child or if there is one that bolts right up.

here is a shot of the engine compartment
http://www.soundillusions.net/sites/musthavemuzk/90cutlasssupreme/enginecompartment_0005.jpg

as for the sway bars front and rear...
i have heard of them, but beyond that i have not a clue what they look like or where they are located at exactly. so all help is greatly appreciated with that.

as for the shocks/struts...
i have shocks on the rear and struts on the front.
and i have heard of monroe and KYB (i think that is the name) other than that i am again lost.

so it looks like i keep my tire pressure down to stay safe.

overall i am willing to give up some ride comfort for handling. as for a mix i would say 60/40 (handling/ride comfort) this is why i am limiting myself to 16" wheels. i do not want no sidewall and a stiff suspension to feel all the bumps in the road. i would like improved handling/cornering and some comfort as well.

i will start there and see what happens next.

as for a budget. not sure. i know wheels and tires can prolly set me back close to a grand. as i am gonna try to find them either locally or used from someplace. i have seen them range so far from 100-150 each. and well i am guessing rubber will hit me for the same or more each. i have been recomended Goodyear HP's so far. well actually i have been recomended several, but this one has the most votes for it.

as for shocks, struts, and the other stuff. i am not sure.
as i am wanting quality without being stuck with a huge bill.
and i am gonna be doing this in stages. over time.
so basically within reason. might not get this all done before winter hits though. i am thinkin this might be a yearlong project or so as i am wanting other things for the car as well as car audio and then there is the rest of the real world.

thanx
Monty
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Sound_Miata
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Postby Sound_Miata » Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:18 pm

keeping away from a large bills, you don't need to spend 150ish to get a good tire, get away from the michelin/goodyear lines and the quality is very high without the markup of the other names (michelin especially!) anyhow, keeping away from shocks/struts for the time being (suspension tuning is an art) I would say that a front strut/shock (whichever you have, as U said shock) tower brace would probably be a good idea, that will eliminate a good bit of flex when hitting odd bumps etc if it is a good piece.

Start with tires, I highly recommend the kumho ecsta 712's as a good performance tire at a great price.

-Greer
*Winner of the Beastly 1000th AND 2000th Post*

slappin momma llama on the backside-Joshie-Poo :-D



Vendors: We will allow you to break the laws of physics and the second law of thermodynamics so long as you provide us with a working model.
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nismo
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Postby nismo » Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:26 pm

if you need to do a fstb (front strut tower bar), you can do it yourself pretty easily with stuff from a hardware store for about 15 bux, instead of the 150 + for fancy ones.

also, as far as ride/handling, if you wanna save some cash, do the upgrades in pairs...do your shocks/springs/struts at the same time, that way you save money by doing less alignment jobs that can set you back a ton.

for brands to look into, id suggest h&r springs, and kyb agx shocks (you dont gotta get the agx's, but theyre adjustable for when you really wanna attact the curves, but can be changed for a street comfortable ride too).

as far as tires, check out yokohama. i dont remember any specific tires off hand, but the avs sport is a good tire (if somewhat costly). also bridgestone potenzas are decent tires to look into. if you cant tell, im more into the handling side, so my suggestions are more biased :)

anyway, gtg, more suggestions later.

eric
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Sound_Miata
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Postby Sound_Miata » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:00 pm

avs sport is NOT one of the better ones in cost to value, their wet weather leaves much to be desired in the cars I've driven them on...

-Greer
*Winner of the Beastly 1000th AND 2000th Post*

slappin momma llama on the backside-Joshie-Poo :-D



Vendors: We will allow you to break the laws of physics and the second law of thermodynamics so long as you provide us with a working model.
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SQStephen
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re swaybars:

Postby SQStephen » Tue Jun 18, 2002 12:23 am

I used to own a 74 Firebird and it had wimpy swaybars, so I went to the bone yard and found larger diameter one's. I believe the front one I had was 1"5/8 and I found one that was 1"7/8. I forget what size the back one was, but I changed it out too. It made a dramatic improvement in the cornering response dept. Hope this helps.
:)
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musthavemuzk
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Postby musthavemuzk » Wed Jun 19, 2002 8:38 pm

OK these adjustable ones you mention....where do they get adjusted at? i mean do you have to raise the car to get to the adjusters? can you do it easily? do ya think the wonderful winter weather up here would have a negative effect on the adjuster?

Monty

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