Speakerboy wrote:If you really want to get technical, the core of that engine is in a lot of other products besides these two - the Caddy just happens to be the most expensive. The CTS-V was the most parts bin car of all of the V-Series models. It is only 10K more than a loaded regular CTS, and has 140 reliable horsepower more.
As I said, their enginerding is spread over more than just one line.
Speakerboy wrote:My point was that the numbers only tell half of the story. We have all seen the turbo car that has a lot of power, but the curves (horsepower and torque) are quite peaky. To a lesser extent, all of those cars you just mentioned are the same. Only Mercedes has a reputation of building an engine with substantial torque, and they were using the 3 valve per cylinder design for decades. Only recently did they switch to four per cylinder.
I don't know, the torque on every single one of them was pretty respectable. The MB has 391, the BMW 5.0 is 360, 6.0 is 444, and the Lexus is 367. Those all seem like they're torqued well.
Speakerboy wrote:You also can't cherry pick the nicer engines in those brands. What about the V-8 engines in the Lexus SC, GX, and LX? The 4.7 liter V-8 in the LX and GX only have 268 and 263 hp respectively. Yes they have more torques than horsepower (320's), but still, it is a V-8 in an import.
Torque wins for trucks. The don't have a need to have tons of horsepower to tow
And I didn't cherry pick, I compared based on engine sizes. Would it be fair to compare the 6.0L to a 3.0L for fuel economy? I didn't think so, either. And as for the SC, it's the 4.3L that's 5 years old, and it was 300HP and 300lb/ft, and it's in a car
And if you want to bring other engines into play, what about the Mustang? V8 that's 300HP (NA 4.6L), SVT Cobra that's 390HP/390lb/ft (4.6L SC), and the 5.4L 550HP GT500 (again, with SC). Oh, and the Cobra is $38K. The GT500 is supposed to be under $40K, too.
Speakerboy wrote:If you really want to compare similarly priced vehicles, compare the $77,090 STS-V to the vehicles you listed. This is a car with 469hp from a 4.4L V-8. I know, it is boosted, but that is nothing new. Ton of room, enough power to scare the pi$$ out of you, and killer looks (I think).
Normally aspirated was one of the things I singled out. If I wanted boosted, I could have gone to the MB 5.5L that does 505, or the BMW M5 or M6, both with a 5.0L that does 500. Or, if you wanted to get even more exotic, the proposed "tuned and turbo'd" Lexus F-line that is supposedly going to get 500+ out of the 4.6L.
Speakerboy wrote:His GTO was also about half price of the any of the cars mentioned, and has a completely different audience. I guess GM at least evaluated that priority right.
I pointed that out, too. I didn't base it on price. And let's also keep in mind, the GTO sold 14K. And no, GM didn't evaluate it right. According to MSN (here
"Indeed, the best year for the modern reincarnation of the GTO was in calendar 2004, but with only 13,569 GTO sales in the U.S. The modern GTO is actually a U.S. version of the Holden Monaro coupe made in an Australian factory by Pontiac's parent company, General Motors Corp. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target."
18K was their goal and it never sold that many?? Wonder how many S550's or LS460's will be sold...
If the sales numbers in Japan are any indicator for the LS460, then they've got a winner. They sold 12K of them in a month. That's quite a bit of demand for a car that's $70K+. Appears that Toyota might be a bit better judge of what people want than GM, regardless of price. They suck at predicting total demand, though. They thought it would move 1300 units the first month. I'd want to have that kind of problem.